Susan G says:

I have been to your site before. The more I take in, the more I keep coming back!

Rachel says:

Indian skin is dark

JUN says:

China Vs. India — A student’s view point
By: Bale
http://www.kanglaonline.com/index.php?template=kshow&kid=610

Last summer, I had the good fortune of visiting China as part of a larger group of MBA students from the Wharton School, USA. Having grown up in India and having traveled around S.E. Asia, I had certain pre-conceived expectations about China prior to my visit.

However, by the end of my trip, these expectations had been exceeded by far. China is an enigma but it also an extremely exciting place where optimism is brimming from all directions. I couldn’t help but compare China to India. And while there are several points of contrast between the two countries the main takeaway was that although China had already made significant progress in narrowing the gap between itself and developed countries, the future for India looks very promising.

As we crossed Hong Kong harbour into Mainland China at Shenzhen, the first thing that took my breath away was the world class highway – a 4-lane dual-carriage motorway – as opposed to the dusty road that I had envisioned. That made me think of the awesome and picturesque Mumbai-Pune highway stretch, the most beautiful highway strip I have seen anywhere in the world.
The primary differences between the two countries’ highway systems are that while both are state of the art, China has a much more extensive highway system as the government there emphasised infrastructure development at the onset of its economic reforms in 1979.

Also, the Chinese highway network has millions more cars that utilise its roads. The Mumbai-Pune highway, despite its beauty, is still underutilised. However, India’s automobile industry is churning more cars every year and its output will surely rise exponentially as long as the government’s plans to link India via highways continue unabated.

Another offshoot of infrastructure is real estate, which is booming in China today. The skylines of Shenzhen, Shanghai, Chengdu and Hong Kong are homes to some of the tallest buildings in the world and are reminiscent of scenes from Star Trek.
A quick trip around Beijing’s Central Business District reveals more cranes per square km than you can fathom. The government has “moved” factories to the outskirts of the city to pave way for commercial and residential properties. Consequently, there has been a flurry of real estate speculation with large swings in property prices in major cities.

Though in India, real estate growth seems to have taken off of late with cities like Delhi, Mumbai, Bangalore, Chennai and Kolkata experiencing real estate boom, property development as in China is difficult in Indian cities due to space constrains. However, the development of suburbs like Gurgaon and Ghaziabad in Delhi, Rajar Haat in Kolkata etc has also seen the emergence of a new type of city growth so far unseen outside Mumbai.

One solution to the space constraints faced by Indian cities is to develop and promote mid sized cities or completely new townships as the Chinese did with Shenzhen, which grew from a sleepy border town of 341,000 to a city of 6 million people since 1980.

However, in India also, tier II and tier III cities like Pune, Mysore, Chandigarh are coming up, defying the age-old system of metro-centric growth.

The third most interesting aspect about my visit was the sheer optimism of the country’s potential – a universal sentiment that was shared by all types of people – people from the interiors of China, entrepreneurs, foreign nationals doing business in China as well as students.

Most striking was the fact that all the students I met at two of China’s top MBA programmes wanted to work in China and were not lured by lucrative jobs offered in the West or even Singapore. The students believed that China was the place to be in both the near and long term and that it would be foolish to leave a high growth/high opportunity market, such as China, for the more flat growth and unfamiliar markets of the West.

This last Chinese nationalistic and optimistic sentiment was both astonishing and inspiring. It made me reflect whether it is possible to mitigate and reverse the brain drain that is characteristic in India today. In the US/UK, there are thousands of Indian students many of who harbor intentions of returning to India albeit primarily for personal rather than economical reasons.

On the flip side, there are many in India who migrate to the West and SE Asia in search for more lucrative opportunities. But the tide is turning in favour of India. Conferences such as the Wharton India Economic Forum (to be held in Philadelphia on November 18th 2005) have played a critical role in reversing the “brain drain” by educating students about the possibilities available in India.

India may not have an extensive world class infrastructure network or the tallest buildings in the world but we still have the conditions and the opportunities available for building successful business while at the same time contributing to the country’s economic development – a thriving democracy, well functioning capital markets and legal systems.

The flurry of domestic and cross border M&A activity over the last few years coupled with the rush of eminent private equity players scrambling to pick a slice of the Indian market is testimony to the growth and investment potential of Indian industry.

Additionally, India has some of the brightest minds in the world and a growing entrepreneurial skill set buttressed by the return of the successful Indian entrepreneurs of Silicon Valley. It is time to put our tremendous resources together to reverse the brain drain and to evoke similar expressions of awe to visitors as I experienced during my visit to China.

JUN says:

read this also

The rapid growth of the Indian and Chinese economies have transformed the two countries in recent years. But this prosperity has also brought other problems.
I think it was in 2003, that the world suddenly woke up to China.
I am not sure what caused it to happen, what particular event or news story. I just remembered the phone in the BBC’s Beijing Bureau started ringing and it has not stopped since.

Well now it is happening again and this time it is not China, it is India.
Every time you turn on the television or pick up a magazine, it is no longer the rise of China, it is now the rise of China and India.
The desire to make comparisons is understandable. Both have more than a billion people. Both are growing at 10% a year.
There are, I suspect, many who are hoping that India, with its freedom and democracy, will win this new race to become the next economic super power. I am not so sure.
I have spent the last eight years living in Beijing, and only four days in Delhi, so comparisons are difficult.
But the few days I recently spent in India made me look at China in a new light.

‘Shocking experience’
Delhi is an overwhelming experience. It is as if all of humanity has been squeezed into one city.
The streets groan under the weight of people. The air is filled with deafening noise and sumptuous smells.
Switch on the television and it is the same.
Between channels blasting out voluptuous Bollywood love stories and pop videos, an endless stream of news channels dissect the latest political scandals, and debauched lifestyles of the rich and famous.
Coming from China it is an almost shocking experience.
But after the initial delight at being in an open society, I started to notice other things.

The hotel was expensive and bad. In my room I searched for a high speed internet connection, a standard feature in any hotel in China. There was not one.
Then with the night-time temperature still well above 30C (86F) the power went out.
I lay for hours soaked in sweat trying, and failing, to get back to sleep and wishing I was back in Beijing where the lights never go out.
But getting back would not be easy.
Passenger queues
I looked at my plane ticket. Departure time 0315. Surely that could not be right.
I called the front desk. “”That’s correct sir,”" he said, “”the airport is too small so many flights from Delhi leave in the middle of the night.”"
He was not joking.
My taxi struggled along the Jaipur road towards the airport.
The two-lane road was clogged by an endless convoy of lorries. Finally I arrived at Indira Gandhi International airport. Despite the hour it was teeming with people.
The queues snaked around the airport and back to where they had started.
Foreign tourists stared in bewilderment. Locals with the resigned look of those used to waiting.
“”Is it always like this?”" I asked a man in the queue ahead of me.
“”Pretty much,”" he sighed.
I was finally shepherded aboard the flight to Shanghai.
Next to me sat a friendly looking Indian man in shorts and running shoes.
“”Is this your first trip to China?”" he asked me.
“”No,”" I replied, “”I live there.”"
“”Really,”" he said, his interest piqued, “”what should I expect?”"
“”I think,”" I said, “”you should expect to be surprised.”"
Jaw dropping
Six hours later, our plane taxied to a halt in front of the soaring glass and steel of Shanghai’s Pudong International Airport
As we emerged into the cool silence of the ultra-modern terminal, my new companion’s jaw slid towards his belly button.
“”I was not expecting this,”" he said, his eyes wide in wonder. “”Oh no, I definitely was not expecting this”".
I also found myself looking at China afresh.
Later that day as I drove home from Beijing airport along the smooth six-lane highway I could not help feeling a sense of relief at being back in a country where things work.
And it was not just the airports and roads.
Driving through a village on the edge of Beijing I was struck by how well everyone was dressed.
In Delhi, I had been shocked to see thousands of people sleeping rough on the streets every night, nothing but the few rags they slept in to call their own. Even deep in China’s countryside that is not something you will see.
In Delhi I had been told of the wonders of India’s new economy, of the tens of thousands of bright young graduates churning out the world’s latest computer software.
I thought of China’s new economy, of the tens of millions of rural migrants who slave away in factories, making everything from plimsolls to plasma televisions.
And of the same rural migrants, heading home to their villages at Chinese New Year festival loaded down with gifts, their pockets stuffed full of cash.
China is not a free society, and it has immense problems. But its successes should not be underestimated.
They are ones that India, even with its open and democratic society, is still far from matching.

anonymous says:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Indian_economy_smaller_than_thought_World_Bank/articleshow/2630912.cms

poverty benchmark in $ and what is PPP ???

Rahul says:

You had been quoting so many articles and links,interestingly from al-jazeera.. and we wish you all the best in your theories…

The rapid emergence of China and India dramatically transformed the global economy during the last decade. But the two countries have pursued contrasting strategies: China’s industrialization has been fueled by public-sector investments and large-scale foreign direct investment (FDI) in manufacturing; India’s has been driven largely by domestic companies and entrepreneurs. More recently, however, the two countries have taken efforts to collaborate. India, for instance, has learned from China’s successes to lure investors to the country’s manufacturing sector and has become the third largest recipient of FDI. Closer engagement between China and India has tremendous implications for the Asian economy and should be welcomed by our neighbors. Nonetheless, both countries must undertake extensive domestic reforms to capitalize fully on the benefits of globalization.

China and India have its own problems.. please dont tell me about the living standards in china.. I myself had stayed in china for close to an year and got the opportunity to travel to some rural areas(which is kind of risking your life)…I am very much amused at your statement “”As far as the living standard is concerned, China wins all aspects except the population growth.”"…. have you ever been to China dear friend???
In the near future India is unlikely to receive a poor score card from world allies as a bastion of freedom and democracy and economic openness. Indeed, the US increasingly views India as a strategic partner in the evolving regional economic, political and security arrangements in Asia, and is keen to work with India to help make it into ‘a major global power in the 21st century’. Meanwhile, China has difficulties precisely on these issues.

India’s GDp had been growing consistently around 7-8% over the years. India is achieving this result with just half of China’s level of domestic investment in new factories and equipment, and only 10 per cent of China’s foreign direct investment. While China’s GDP growth in the last two years remained high, in 2004 and 2005 it was investing close to 50 per cent of its GDP in domestic plant and equipment – roughly equivalent to India’s entire GDP. That is higher than any other country, exceeding even China’s own exalted levels in the era of central planning. The evidence is as clear as ever: China’s growth stems from massive accumulation of resources, while India’s growth comes from increasing efficiency.

India is our country..and if we as citizens dont support our country, will u do that for us??? You may have your own views and might contradict but then instead of wasting time here,do something productive for China…I would say responsible social being On the other hand we will do all our best to ensure that our country surpasses all the difficulties that we are facing now, be it food,power or high living standards.. But there is good news for you… the biggest beneficiary of the rise of India will be China itself. It will be forced to examine the imperfections of its own economic model and to abandon its sense of complacency acquired in the 1990s. China was light years ahead of India in economic liberalisation in the 1980s. Today it lags behind in critical aspects, such as rural education and domestic private entry in the financial sector…. and last but not least, freedom to its own people….

Titan says:

I visited India. I cannot say I know India well but I knew a little difference. What surprised me was chaotic and semi-anarchic at most place in Mumbai and New Delhi. At least the government should keep the existing roads clearn and orderly even if he could not build new one.

I found a blog from a westerner who visited China and India.
http://chris-adams.blogspot.com/2007/09/summer-ends.html
And

Titan says:

Then tell me what is the basic rights for a poor? And donot tell me it is the FREEDOM that made most of Indian cities so filthy and stink. Donot tell me the poors in Mumbai’s slums have mercedes but without basic rights such as clean water, food, electricity, even toilet.

Gurudev says:

As I said earlier, you probably dont understand the Indian psyche, we value our freedom of expression more than ANYTHING ELSE including your so called luxurious cities.

There may still be poor Indians, but there is definitely a slow transitions. I myself was from a very poor family, not anymore!

Over a period of time we will slowly get rid of poverty too. But will over a period of time the Chinese people get their freedom to express themselves? Will there be free media? Will people be free to call spade a spade? Without being arrested and tortured?
Even after 20 years of Tianenmen, your government has not apologized for the incident. Which government on this planet has called army to fire on its own youth students? Only China has

Freedom to express is more important to us than luxurious cities. We love our country, no matter how bad shape it is in.
But look at China, the number of people who are dissenting from China to other countries in search of freedom every year. They have even settled in India. Entire tibetans who fled Tibet when China invaded Tibet, are today settled in India. Come to my state and see these photos live of the tibetan colony here http://www.worldisround.com/articles/17348/

Forget just the Indians, even for the refugees see what kind of freedom and opportunities we provide and make them one with us. That is the greatness of India. In China forget about the foreigners, your own people dont have the basic rights to express and protest.
In India, even if the tibetans protest against the Indian government, nobody will even touch them. Got it. That is LIFE for us. TRUE FREEDOM

Look at your China now
http://www.christusrex.org/www1/sdc/sdchome.html
http://www.christusrex.org/www1/sdc/hr_facts.html
http://canadianpress.google.com/article/ALeqM5hdBfIviA1BCuNeVyA5BU1Ba1rGpw
http://hrichina.org/public/

I can add and add and add…

Titan says:

What a logic! Some richest beggers with mercedes in slums can not prove most of beggers in the slums are not poor. As far as the living standard is concerned, China wins all aspects except the population growth.

People in the video you provided look quite decent and streets quite neat despite the pollution. let us take a look at the pollution in India.

http://web.centre.edu/enviro/Photos_files/photolib_files/Picturefiles/Indian%20Slideshow%20x/Indian%20Pollution/Indian%20Pollution%20Show.htm

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N04197040.htm
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2007/06/11/100083453/index.htm

Titan says:

by the way, rural poors in poorest county in China.
Sure, they are poor but still much better than poors in the streets in Mumbai.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/1522979B-107E-46C8-A84E-7425F60C3EE9.htm

http://english.aljazeera.net/PhotoGallery/Aspx/Show.aspx?album=chinafarmers&currentPage=1&slidshow=Next

Gurudev says:

Titan
My information about China is not from one single website. Its from the very people who belong to the oppressed Chinese masses as well as those who belong to the Chinese communist cadre. I regularly read chinese news papers both from within china as well as outside.
A superpower should be by the people, not just by the government. Please see http://chinaview.wordpress.com , do you think all of them are bogus?

In India we dont have any fear talking against the establishment, while in China you will be jailed beaten and what not!

In India our government did not call its army to fire on its youth students. We have a multiparty system in India and can vote people in or out of power. Tianenmen square happened in China, not in India

In India, there is no massive ban on internet sites which talk against the government, only in China do search engines have filters and websites are blocked.

In India there is no need for people to secretly record incidents of government oppression in their hidden mobile phones/cameras, our media is free to record and report things in broad daylight. Only in your china and Burma do people have to secretly record incidents of government oppression without getting caught and then pass it out to the external world.

If you think the below links are jokes, well fine, I cant really help it, can I?

http://in.news.yahoo.com/070907/43/6kfob.html

http://www.rediff.com/money/2007/sep/06indian.htm

Titan says:

“”What a joke by a superpower aspirant
Of the Top 50 Asian companies in the Forbes list published recently 7 are from China, and India tops the list with 12!”"
It is really a joke!

http://www.redcatjournal.com/china-content/china-stocks/half-world-039-s-top-10-largest-companies-market-capitalization-are-chine

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/10/29/bloomberg/bxinvest.php

Titan says:

It is so funny. A guy who knows nothing about China is talking about China. Most information you got are from the extreme anti-communism website “”epochtimes.com”" which never say anything good in China.

Gurudev says:

Gururaj,
To a large extent I feel that the difference between Chinese and Indians is the difference between nationalism and patriotism

Vicky says:

HI GD, nice blog.

Well i always thought about the things you wrote in your numeros blogs. but the questions is very simple that i cannot find an answer for.
I am not talking about surveys or data collected from orgnization i am talking about wat i see around.

People are patriotic and wants India to Develop and all good things.
But when it come to practice the basic morality it seems like we are Hypocartes (i am talking about me and all who are like me)
For instacnce i nvr supported corruption till one day when i wanted a driving license and i gave the test every time the officer has to point out a mistake or something.
Till i paid him.
Who has the time to go to court or keep complaning and compromise on there most important thing (job).

I guess there are a few percentage of people who are corrupt and forcing others to be a part of corruption. ( taking advantage of the weak)

wat i suggest is we should work step by step to make india a super power, concentrate on the root cause of all the problems.
currption cannot be overcome, but if we follow rules there would be less situations where we actually have to compromise and be a part of corruption.
( After i got my License, i always follow the traffic rules, and i nvr had to pay to a officer again).

nigel says:

China has already bet India to superpower status many times before. China was the worlds’ leading civilization for 5000years according to the CIAs’ world fact-book.

Right now China is topping India in almost every aspect. Democracy doesn’t necessarily mean people’s standard of living is better. For example whats the point of having a right to vote when almost half of India’s population is illiterate?

Dare I say that China has a literacy rate of almost 100% and people in China can expect a higher standard of living. Even taking into account our so called “”lack of freedom”" and India’s abundance of it, the UN still ranks China higher in terms of HDI (Human development index).

But rightly so…Buddhism is Indian and martial arts may well be. But Chinese success Indian? I think not.

anonymous says:

also by this do you mean that since india and china are in the race of becoming superpower for atleast another 10 yrs ther is no threat of any war??? Is Russia not in the race of becoming superpower???

Gurudev says:

Anonymous
Most people in India always concentrate on Pakistan as a threat to India. But I personally believe that it is China in the long run that is a real threat.
When the earlier NDA government came to power, the then defense minister of India George Fernandes had clearly stated that it is China and not Pakistan, which is the number one threat to India, and he had said this just a week before India conducted its nuclear tests in may 1998.
See http://www.tibet.ca/en/wtnarchive/1998/5/4-2_1.html

I think NDA government was one of the best things to happen in defense sector for India. We had a great committed defense minister whom every army jawan respected. No defense minister till then had gone to the deadly combat field of Siachen and he made multiple visits to that place. I dont think any congress government would have ever conducted a nuclear test, to introduce a minimum deterrence which was badly missing from Indian arsenal. It also revealed to the world Pakistan’s nuclear status. Which country can give an immediate tit for tat response for a nuclear test unless and until they have borrowed technology

Today India, China and Pakistan are all nuclear powers. We might have not made adequate tests for highest level of accuracy, but we do have credible nuclear deterrence, and remember neither had americans done detailed tests before they nuked Japan in 1945.
But being practical, China in no way wants to hamper its economic growth for at least another decade, only somebody who is mad in China can think about a war with India at this juncture where economy matters more than anything else. Because both for India and China, any slowdown in its economic growth now means a point of no return.
The worry today actually should be about Pakistani military and administration going into the hands of some extremist elements. Any such indication should be responded with a pro-active strike to contain any further damages. We dont have to do that either, US and Israel will take care. Israeli missiles actually have been alert with targets towards Pakistani cities for quite a long time, as Israel feels that the only real threat for them in the region could be from Pakistan.

It was the Israeli satellite surveillance systems and unmanned drones that helped India get the crucial information about enemy targets during the Kargil war.

As of now there is no need to worry. Worry is the misuse of imagination, so we need to concentrate on something more productive, preparedness.

Gurudev says:

Shweta
Nice to hear that even you are in IT.

Given the fact that my best bet today is on IT (since I am in this field too), I hope to cross roads with the like minded Indian youth in this field some day soon

All the best for your efforts and thanks for liking the blog!

Cheers
Guru

Gurudev says:

Shweta

“Let us try to become #1 in our respective fields, and India will automatically become #1 in the world”
This line was for those Indians who do not want to take even the slightest of risks, and still can contribute to a stronger India by just being in their respective profession/passion.

Then we need leaders who can lead from the front. Organize, galvanize the youth and show them actual directions.
We dont need leaders who organize movements where people come out on the streets and protest.
We need leaders who organize people, who stop relying on political class for development, stop criticizing politicians for their failures, and instead start development activities independent of these politicians.
In a nutshell, just like the way IT developed in this country, India should continue to become strong “”inspite of its political system”"

If you want me to assist you in what actually you can do practically in this direction, please mail me at itzguru@gmail.com

shweta says:

hi,
gr8 text.. gr8 information. But i want to ask one thing Guru, what practically we all can do on our own base to push our country towards success and make it a super power like America and other countries?

I agree with ur comment as “”Let us try to become #1 in our respective fields, and India will automatically become #1 in the world”" But is that enough?

I really want to do something for my country but my passion has no direction. I don’t want to go to the border and fight like a soldier and die. I want to live for my country and actually do something that help me, my community and my country grow! Plz suggest

Gurudev says:

Thanks for the link A J J
Many of my friends also sent it to me.. will give it a try
Yes, as you said it is high time that we get into action mode!