First the basic definitions:
Creationism / Intelligent Design:
A belief that there exists a supernatural being (God) who created all existing life forms including Dinosaurs. He designed us all just like the way a software designer designs the software.
A science that talks about how life evolved from simple molecules to present day complex multi cellular organisms via evolution. In other words, Nature is the creator here. The creator here is natural not supernatural.
A riddle(?) coined by some creationist which can be summarized as follows:
1) DNA is the Genetic Code
2) All codes are created by a conscious mind
3) So DNA was designed by a mind i.e. by a supernatural being.
Here we go.
First things first.
Even though DNA is called the genetic code, its not code in the sense of a software code or a software program, it has no logic in it, it is more comparable to a software database. DNA contains genetic information. Its more like a software database which contains the information required to create proteins. The actual proteins themselves are manufactured by ribosomes in the cells which make use of this genetic information in the DNA. So the code here is NOT logic but information.
And where does the logic used for protein manufacturing come from? Well, most of the time its from a feedback loop. The surroundings of the DNA send chemical signals as to what proteins are required and how much and this is how the proteins are synthesized. This is what is the basis of evolution too, ie the surroundings demand how the species should evolve to survive.
Second things second.
All codes are created by a conscious mind?
Well not really. Only software code are created by humans. Not all codes :)
Take the case of Nylon eating bacteria. These strains did not exist till man invented Nylon. These were discovered by Japanese scientists in 1975 in ponds containing waste water from a factory producing nylon and were capable of digesting nylon by products.
Now did God create the Nylon eating bacteria after humans invented Nylon? Well these bacteria belong to the Flavobacterium strain which developed this capacity to digest nylon via a mutation that occurred when generations of this bacteria lived in surroundings which contained nothing but nylon waste.
And to prove this fact, scientists took the original Flavobacterium which did not have nylon digesting ability and cultured them in a laboratory in containers which had no other nutrients required by the bacteria but only nylon by products. And over a period of time a new strain of Flavobacterium developed which now were able to digest nylon and this time the enzyme created by these bacteria to digest nylon was a different one from the one that was created by the earlier set of Nylon eating bacteria discovered by the Japanese scientists! This proves that evolution does occur through mutation and might even occur differently for the same initial conditions.
So to summarize, conscious mind is not mandatory to code. Nature in itself is the largest conscious mind out there.
Take the case of pulsars (extremely dense stars) which give out regular pulses of radiation just like our radars do. Does this mean that intelligent mind like humans created these pulsars?
Finally Last Things
If conscious mind created DNA, then what about the creation of that conscious mind? Doesn’t it require another conscious mind to create that conscious mind and so on.
You can have your own Truths
You cannot have your own Facts
adding up to my previous question…’Information’ resides in DNA…ribosomes ‘utilize’ this info to create proteins in order to sustain cell life.Now how come these ribosomes ‘know’ that which protein to create to keep itself intact..? Are the ribosomes or chemicals alive or conscious?Is there any known mechanism which ‘monitor’ changes in the outer world and takes necessary decisions…Surrounding triggering ribosomes to make appropriate proteins…but How does it happen?
BTW,Thanks for your previous replies….I’m not good at all in genetics thing.Just scratching my mind here….. :)
No ribosomes dont know about it just like the way a computer program doesnt know what it is doing. They are just programmed to do so and they are following those instructions. The same is the case of ribosomes which simply creates proteins in response to external demand, and the external demand again come in the form of chemical signals which are received by the cell from its surroundings. So for example when we eat, the food gets converted into glucose and enters our blood stream and the cells in pancreas when looking at the increased level of glucose in the blood created chemical signals to its ribosomes to create insulin which is then released by the pancreas to help our body absorb that glucose and convert it into required energy. Now this entire process is in the form of chemical reactions where you start with glucose and end up with insulin, just like the way zeroes and ones run in a computer program.
Hope this helps :)
The topic is really interesting and I have developed my own opinion based on “accept-all-and-logically-eliminate” method. I feel that there are different levels…
“Just like earth revolving around sun is a bigger loop and within this one loop moon revolves more no of times.”
So for DNA I feel is the deeper and more rigid form of data which is updated by unconscious mind, which in turn is a bit flexible. The conscious mind is the final and most flexible form of data storage which we changes instantaneously…
Very true Srikanth – the order of line is mind controls the brain and brain influences the body – so if our consciousness is able to control our line of thoughts and beliefs – ie our mind – then in turn we can control our brain and there by our body.
Good read below .. probably you can elaborate more on this :)
Very good interview Sainath, thanks for that. The opinion of the nobel laureate are very interesting and informative. Will definitely write on the subject. Time is the major constraint in life :)
The first level conscious mind occurs in its current state with certain predominant features of second level conscious mind(its creator) and so on and so forth… to nth level. where n is infinity which is superset of all features. If first level conscious mind tries to expand itself consciously… it itself represents entirety-(nth level state).
Hey hi Guru,
Interesting what you told,but i have a doubt.If DNA is like ‘database’ of ‘information’..than we know,that information has no real meaning until there is some one to comprehend it,i mean text written in, say Hebrew will be no information,but just little scratching on paper,until it is comprehended by a Reader,who is willfully seeking the information right there!
And let me know if this is a stupid question… :)
Very good question Jai. The comprehension is done by the Ribosomes – the protein factories of the cells where this information is put to use – and this again is stimulated not from inside but based on the external stimulators ie the surrounding conditions of the cells.
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I believe that the human form does not BY DESIGN have the capacity to understand the complexity of our universe and the reasons why we exist in this form and what it all meand. In fact, I feel it is silly to even worry about who and why we are here on this earth in this life at this time, who created us, etc. We should be worried about living and life and love and caring for one another and our planet. We are all from the same place – star stuff – born of the cosmos – we are all brothers and sisters, in essence. It is fun to think about these things, but there is no need to take them so seriously.
It is possible we may evolve to a higher form that can contemplate and understand these things, but in our present state, I’m afraid the animal in us is far too strong. by dealing out love and compassion we will overrule the animal and transcend, evolve, into that higher form over time.
Just my thoughts on the subject, please feel free to disagree
Very rightly said, while humans should try to understand this universe as the science known to us evolves, the last thing we should be doing is to fanatically fight in the name of our beliefs.
Trying to understand the functioning of this universe is one thing. It is to increase the knowledge of humanity, hopefully for the betterment of life on earth. As Einstein said “The most incomprehensible thing about the universe is that it is comprehensible.”
But violence on other fellow human beings in the name of what we believe is as you rightly said “the animal in us” being far too strong. The saints in India do not eat food which contains salt, sweet or that is spicy or sour – basically they live only on tasteless food for they believe that consuming tasty food invokes the animal instincts in us.
Atheist's Riddle – Evolution vs Intelligent Design – http://b2l.me/bpttf (via @hitxp)