Not so long ago, I was one of those outputs of the modern Indian schooling system, which was introduced in India during the British colonial (mis)rule, which makes you believe that everything that is west is scientific and great and everything that is Indian is unscientific and full of blind beliefs.
Not any more though. After all Mark Twain had said, “Never let your schooling interfere with your Education“.
The more I read outside the school textbooks, not just Indian literature and the vedic texts, but also more from the western especially American authors – like Mark Twain, Voltaire, Warren Hastings, Will Durant, Grant Duff etc , and from the biographies and lectures of great physicists like Albert Einstein, Carl Sagan, Robert Oppenheimer, Erwin Schrodinger, Werner Heisenberg, etc, from the works of great Indians like Swami Vivekananda, Bal Gangadhar Tilak, Sri Aurobindo, Mahatma Gandhi, like that of current western vedic scholars like David Frawley, Stephen Knapp, Francois Gautier etc – did I realize that a lot of what is taught in the schools is a myth, not to miss the Myth of the Aryan Invasion Theory and the Dating of the Vedas.
Animals Predicting Future – East and West
Take the case of those in India going to parrot astrologers. These astrologers predict the future of a person by asking a parrot to pick up a card from a pack of cards and depending on which card the parrot picked, the astrologer would predict the person’s future accordingly based on the text inside the card.
Now compare this parrot reading with the recent world cup football, where the so called developed society was asking Paul, the Octopus to predict the result of football matches. How is this different from the parrot version? Except for the fact that the future of a person would contain a large set of permutations and combinations to pick from, where as a foot ball match contains only two – one of the two teams that wins. Isn’t the task of Parrot, the astrologer more difficult than that of Paul, the Oracle? :)
Just like a trained parrot picking up a random card from a pack, all I could see in the news was Paul being hungry and moving to grab one of the two dishes whose containers were painted with the national flags of the competing teams. Who taught Paul which national flag belongs to which country? Just the way, for the same person a parrot will pick up a different card from the pack if asked the second time, have they tried asking Paul the same question during his different meals of the day? He might have been correct in this world cup, but IS IT SCIENTIFIC?
And finally we had the germans getting angry since Paul predicted a German defeat, and so wanted to make a soup of this poor octopus and drink it! Did Paul ever say that he is going to predict the football match results?
This shows us that faith in animals predicting the future is a common human psychology – be it scientific or not – be it east or west. Humans are always eager to know the future – and so would like to give a try to different and new ways – scientific or otherwise – to predict the future. Whether they take these predictions seriously or not is an individual perception. I personally do not believe in any future predictions because they tend to take away my freedom of action and I believe it is against the existence of consciousness to accurately predict future.
Yes we may predict things based on current data like – there will be a solar eclipse next month, a comet will be passing near Earth next year, John is going to get a job soon, Janardhan might call up this noon, and so on. These kind of predictions are based on currently available information and most of the time might come out true, or if Janardhan’s mobile battery goes down then he may not call up in the noon, the comet may not approach earth since it crashed into some other asteroid near Jupiter, John is attending an interview even after six months, and so on.
So future predictions can be guessed based on a combination of current set of data and past historical experiences, but not accurately and definitely, and definitely not based on the random behavior of Paul or the Parrot. If Future predictions have to be accurate, then future has to be pre-written and should have already happened, and in that case time would be an illusion then, so would be our freedom of thought and actions. So for that not to happen, predictions always have to be a guess or a gamble like the one in stock markets.
Cruelty to Animals and Civilized Societies
Sometime back one of my friends told me, “It is only in unscientific societies like ours do we see animals being slaughtered in the name of God”, he was referring to chickens and sheeps killed in religious ceremonies in India.
I asked him, “Well, how is slaughtering animals in the name of fun more civilized and scientific than killing them in the name of God? Is having fun torturing animals more civilized than killing them with devotion?”
Barbaric killing of innocent animals – Bull Fight is the national game of Spain! Did those bulls come and challenge humans to fight them? Humans are having fun when these animals are fighting for their lives. If he is a real hero then he should fight bare handedly with those bulls, and that too inside a deep forest.
Wasn’t it the same civilized western society which caused extinction of the poor bird Dodo? This innocent bird was hunted to extinction within 200 years of Europeans landing on Mauritius. In Canada even today they hunt and kill seals in thousands, many a times they are said to be skinned alive too! Watch this IFAW video on Seal hunt myths.
Warning: The below video contains disturbing content.
Then we have accusations against the american fast food restaurant chain KFC about inhumane treatment of chickens.
So killing animals for any reason is a prevailing inhumane practice all over the world, be it chickens in the east or seals in the west. And we have animal right activists and organizations fighting to save animals from the inhumane treatment of humans all over the world, be it Maneka Gandhi of India or Alec Baldwin of America or Jane Goodall of Britain.
Gender Bias – Male Chauvanism
Long back, a reader friend had asked if there was anything similar to black magic of India in the western society. I only had to direct him to the history of killing women – Gendercide and witch hunting in Europe. For three consecutive centuries in the modern European history were women selectively targeted and killed in the name of witch-craft, making it one of the largest atrocities on women in modern times.
So Gender bias or male chauvanism is not restricted only to Europe or India or east or west or to one particular religion. All men dominated societies have had this gender bias against women at some time or the other in their history. In fact it was the west who called it “History”. Why not “HerStory”, or why not “Happened Stories” (like Itihaas which is what history is called in Sanskrit and which means “So it happened”).
East + West = Best
The essence of any society should be to pick up the best and good from other societies and leave out the bad and worst practices of its own. While a lot of people in the west are picking up the best of the eastern societies like Yoga, Ayurveda, Sanskrit, Vegetarianism, etc, we find a lot of Indian youth going in for the worst of the western societies like junk food consumption, unhealthy social habits, pub culture and so on.
The best of the west – starting from something as simple as standing in a queue before boarding a bus or a train instead of pushing on top of the fellow passengers, to driving vehicles in proper lanes, to not driving vehicles with high beam unless really required, to providing equal opportunities to all irrespective of their caste, creed or color, to respect a human equally irrespective of his/her occupation (in other words the dignity of labor) – are all being rarely adopted in the Indian society.
I do sincerely hope that the Indian society and its youth pick up the best from the western society. There is a lot for the east to learn from the west, and for the west to learn from the east. And when that happens, humanity will be at its best.
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our ancient teachers ,ancestors ,saints & rishis never went behind name , fame&publicity, nor applied for an patients for any profit.There every effort , there every research was for the development & upliftment of humankind . But we innocent indians were mislead and was made to follow the westerners by the britishers & Now by our representative
Yes, the biggest tragedy is most Indians today simply are not aware about what their ancestors had achieved.
What manly instincts are you talking about Dr? Killing innocent unarmed poor animals in the name of sports and entertainment is manly? If that is the case then I prefer India to be femalish.
The world knows how manly western countries are, who go and carpet bomb innocent civilians, children and women alike in poor countries like Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. Sending out remote controlled Drones and UAVs to kill unarmed innocent civilians in the name of fighting terrorism is manly, but at the same time providing billions of dollars in aid to perpetrators of terrorism like Pakistan is even more manly.
If it happens in India then it becomes uncultured, uncivilized, brutal etc, but if it happens in the west then it becomes manly! Great.
A male continues to restore his manly instincts that is hardly known to Indians by exposing himself to real dangers. This is not only today, man has been doing this since old times only that he had the real danger of being killed in a hunt of an elephant or a lion or jump into a fall or venturing near a valcano. Today he can control it, prevents his own death. You only become brave by exposing yourself to danger, not by sulking at the pavement about the possible risks n all. World over men fight bulls, snakes, crocodiles, with each other many countrie have their own fightmashal arts and what Indians have bharat natyam, kuchipudi,odisi etc etc and ironically men are also part of these only actions Indian know. While the world is still masculine and have taken wars and game alike, Indians have been living like subdued female and thats why they criticize the west because they are what most of the world is and should be. Its only a man’s talent to enjoy adventure, lifeendangering areenaline punping, testosterone boosting fights and actions and the sports are only riskless form of war which Indians hardly have any taste of. That’s the difference. Thats why India is only a weak, dead looser country with a ranting of a glorius past.
Take it.
I’m also an Indian.
Man has evolved into the dominant species today not by hunting and killing animals in the forest, but by using his brains to stay away from them and cut down forests to create agricultural land, and then to create industrial areas. Man has evolved into what he is today NOT by his physical strength but by his MENTAL INTELLIGENCE. How many men be it in the east or west are prepared to go and fight a raging elephant? The man who is fighting the bull, can he do that without a spear in his hand? or without all the medical facilities around him including the stand by ambulances? All those discovery, NG shows were you see men going near wild animals, what we do not see the medical and emergency facilities that are present there off the camera. While it is true that there are brave men who show the dare, the reason for Man being the species he is today is NOT his physique, but his CUNNING mental thoughts. Hunting deers from back, hunting in hundreds to scare off wild animals and kill them, shooting with guns and spears, laying traps for animals are all not MANLY things to do, they are cowardly acts.
Coming back to the allegation that Indians do not engage in adventure, I guess you are not aware of the kind of treks and other sports that we have in India today. Just because it is not shown in channels like discovery or NG does not mean that it does not exist. I myself have been trekking for the past 8 years. The western ghats and himalayan regions in India are one of the best places in the world for adventure games. Rafting in river Ganga near Rishikesh is one of the top spots in the river rafting world, and even Brad Pitt came there to get that experience. The kind of adventure games which exist in the Himalayan region are on par with any western society. The only difference between west and India here is that till yesterday most Indians were poor people and hence had to feed themselves and their families first before venturing into adventure or research. All these luxuries matter only after you have enough for your daily bread. Just go and ask those thousands in the US who lost their jobs and went bankrupt in the recent subprime crisis to go and do some adventure sports :)
Today thanks to its people and enterpreuners most Indians are able to earn adequate and the poverty has come down considerably. India is developing today INSPITE of its politicians. And now such people have enough time to look beyond earning the daily bread. Kusti and Garadi Mane have been in Indian for thousands of years, and today its western version is WWF and wrestling. Martial Arts originated in India, Kalarippayyattu of Kerala is the mother of all modern marital arts, and is practiced in Kerala even today, and was taken to China by Buddhist monks, and there is a written record of this even today at the Shaolin monastery in China. From China it spread to Japan and then to rest of the western world, so I guess west need not teach India what being manly is. Indians know how the britishers stabbed brave Indian kings and soldiers in the back.
The female gender you are talking about, Indira Gandhi, the prime minister of India, why was she hated so much by President Nixon of US and Henry Kissinger? Why they used derogatory words against her? Because she refused to budge to their pressure and went ahead with the war on Pakistan and liberate Bangladesh? The manly west then was busy funding terrorists via Pakistan to fight the communist USSR in Afghanistan, and today the same terrorists are against US and so the same west has declared a war on terror today.
To say that India is ranting on its glorious past, which other civilization on this planet can claim a continuous history of over 5000 years? Where are all those old Incas, Aztec, Mayan, Mesopotomian, Egyptian, Babylonian civilizations today? In all those places today the invaders are thriving and these civilizations have gone without a trace except for their few ancient monuments and excavated relics. On the other hand in India today inspite of numerous invasions starting from the Greeks, Turks, Huns, Mongolians, Mughals, Ghaznis, Ghouris, to recent British, we still continue to recite the same ancient vedic hymns in our temples thousands of years old even today, unlike these other civilizations and inspite of numerous invasions we never got destroyed. Isn’t that manly enough? Where are the zoroastrian parsis today in Iran? We gave them shelter in India, and today they are one of the most successful business communities in the world like Tatas. Indians are indigenous to India, where were the ancestors of today’s Americans 250 years ago? Can anything be more manly for a civilization than maintaining its continuity for more than 5000 years, inspite of numerous invasions?
Female is the real divinity. Men fight for women, not the other way round. People can be born without a man via test tubes but not without a woman. All other societies are male chauvanistic and so dont do female worship, only hinduism has the richness to worship deities in both genders, and to those who know the vedas – the supreme God is referred to as IT being genderless, not as any male or female.
The Indian dance forms are great art forms which take years of dedication to practice and perform and it is derogatory to term them this way. Just because men do not perform such acts in other parts of the world does not mean that it is bad. Pretending and performing as being something you are not is not easy and that is why it is called an art. And I guess you have not read about brave men going for hunting in India if that is the braveness you are talking about. India has fought much more wars than any other country and is still fighting. Look at how many wars the british lost in India before resorting to their cunning tactics. The first to use Rockets in a war was the Indian king Tippu Sultan who used them against the British in the Anglo-Mysore war which the British lost. The sword of Rana Pratap was so huge and heavy that it simply cut across both the opponent king and the horse he was riding at the same time into two. The sword of Tippu was stolen away by the British and kept in their museum only to be recently won in an auction by an Indian and brought back to India. They still have their British museum and queen’s palace filled with all items looted from India. A mighty British army could not withstand a half-naked fakir Mahatma Gandhiji and what is the use of being so manly then? They were literally begging with Gandhiji to send Indian soldiers to fight with them in the second world war against the Germans. Wasn’t Subhash Chandra Bose masculine enough to build a large army single handed, which otherwise would normally only belong to a country and fight the British as if some country had attacked them? If only Germany had succeeded in making the first atomic bomb during the second world war, all the western maleness that you are talking about would have been gone without a trace today :)
If with just a couple of centuries of history west can rant so much about its glorious past saying columbus, greeks, romans and what not, why can’t India with thousands of years of history. I am not sure who considers world’s fourth largest army and fourth largest economy weak, dead looser country while at the same time people in the west today fear about their jobs being lost to somebody from this dead looser country to which their own multinationals are flocking to, to gain an entry to its markets.
To see what manly Indians are upto just watch the show
Entertainment Ke Liye Kuch Bhi Karega on Sony every weekday night from 9:30 to 10:30 PM
And for your kind information, it is not just Indian men who show their manly talents here, you will see even women showing their manly talents better than most men out there.
As others have said, killing unarmed animals is not a manly thing to do, what is manly is what you see in this show – breaking bricks with you forehead via martial arts, Indian martial art forms including Mall Kambh, bending your body like anything using Yoga, playing with fire, and what not.
West is a masculine society a proactive, aggressive, smart society man or woman while the east is subdued, feminine, lousy society as far as the current character goes. Just like a dear will writes it history demonizing a lion, the Indians will quote history which is 4000 years old and will try to own it. a single Indian living in US will get some Nobel or Oscar the Indians will run to own it up. The live in fantastical world which only suits a unrealistic woman. Whts this about gender bias? What is violence? The human today has only survived today after killing others and eating other animals. Socieities develop and reach a stage of utmost refinement but that is essentially enhanced grades of feminization. Masculinity though appears violent to some naive and fragile minds is the basis of perpetuation of life. West has discovered it all, worked it, done it all and those who are siting on the sides can do nothing but criticize that again suits a woman only. The society we always quote here in India doesn’t belong to us so we could own it, we haven’t done anything on it, we only cite hostory and someone else’s great achievements. and as far as West returning to so called eastern ways is concerned. Every hounding, pounding, hawking haughty engine takes a break and rests thats where only it resembles the so called Indianism. Today Indiannism is equivalent to stagnancy, lethargy, submission, opportunism, negativism and all the traits that suit a woman. Thats pathetic we hardly do anything than parroting ancient lines. we haven’t done anything than creating songs, dance, romanticism, verses on woman body or tales of helplessness and we only criticize the west. And woman should be contained, only Indians can speak a stupid thing like– women should be adulated like deities. Thats exemplify everything. This female chauvinism must stop. Any erring female mut be penalised and why not? If a man can be hanged why the women be left who has been sharing the crime. seeing woman differently is a indiscretion itself.
And this weakness of character only appears in emulating the west. Do you get it now? A low character race and a demasculinized one can only lap up to other culture while we have a lot to live with. Go for the solution, NOW!!!
Well Dr, while I agree with you on some lines, I disagree on most of the points. First and foremost, quoting ancient history is no crime, because the tragedy today is most Indian themselves are NOT AWARE of their great history and are being continuously brainwashed to believe via the macaulay education system into believing that “anything that is west is best”. It is true that an Indian with talent has a great change of achieving something in US than in India, and that is because US is a society of opportunities that recognizes talent – and which is why you find not just Indians, but people from ALL OVER THE WORLD flocking to US with the exception of a couple of developed countries. The political and administrative class of post independent India have RUINED the country by their corruption, lack of vision, vote bank politics and so on.
But having said that, its not as if West is some God, or that everything that is Indian is Bad. West has its own drawbacks, and so does east. There are ample points to criticize west, as well as east. At the same time there are also ample points to praise both east and west. And of course our rich history, science and ancient heritage does belong to us, you cannot expect everybody in the society to do something great that stands on par with their ancestors. Just because there is a murderer in India can somebody say that India should not claim Gandhiji’s non-violent heritage. Just because somebody in US makes racist comments today, can we say that US should not claim its heritage of Abraham Lincoln? There are great ayurvedic research institutes in India even today who are coming up with herbal alternatives to modern allopathic medicines which cause allergies and side effects. Western multi national companies are like giants who never allow any alternate systems which challenge their supremacy to evolve. Just see how many researchers are protesting in the west that these MNCs are not allowing alternate energy sources based on solar and other forms to be piloted on large scale. I know how western medical system has made entire societies in their countries addicted to tablets (unnecessarily).
Coming back to worshiping females, its not just female or not just male, its both genders that are worshipped in India and in Hinduism and that is its uniqueness. Society need not be male chauvanistic either. The moment you say female deities should not be there, you are creating another taliban, another al-qaeda, another male dominated society where women are only second level citizens. Worshiping female deities does not mean not punishing women who err, just like the way worshiping male deities need not mean that males will not be punished if they commit crime :)
History is about talking ancient positives and negatives, if talking about ancient achievements is parroting ancient times, then no country should teach their history at all to their current generations! In fact talking about ancient achievements is required, because that gives current teenagers positive moral boost to do more and achieve more, and that is precisely what China is doing today. Chinese cities are far better and more modern than most of western cities (if you have been to China), and the current generation there parrot a 10 times more than Indian about their rich ancient history, and they criticize the west a 100 times more than Indians do. At this pace, very soon in the near future, all the world’s tallest, largest, biggest , smallest, technological marvels will all be found in China, not in the so called supreme west. US owes a couple of trillion dollars to China today, not the other way round.
One of the world’s largest armies – the Indian army, one of the largest contributor to UN peace keeping forces, the largest internal armed forces fighting terrorists and maoists in Kashmir, North east, and all other places, the border security forces of India which have built world’s highest motorable roads in the toughest mountain terrains of Himalayas, one of the world’s largest economies today and supposed to be third largest overtaking Japan very soon, a country in which almost every single western company has an outsourced office, a country to which all the western MNCs are flocking up to get an entry into its market, a country whose population of youth under the age of 30 is larger than the entire population of US – if this is not male like then I wonder what is :)
India has its own issue, and every country has. The US you are talking about is over two centuries ever since it got its Independence (and that after a bloody history of killing most native Americans), on the other hand India has just got its independence just about 60 years away, and what India has achieved is much much more in these 60 years. Where was US at its 60th independence day and where is India at its 60th Independence as one of the world’s largest economies and growing powers? Ask anybody in the US about the term they have introduced called Bangalored , somebody got Bangalored in US means he/she lost job to someone from India, mostly from Bangalore. Americans fear an Indian city not the other way round, haha, that itself makes India more masculine isn’t it, in India we have no such term referring to any American or western city ;)
Why does Obama refer to India and Bangalore every time in his speeches? India is on the right path, we just need to get rid of these sick politicians and clean up the bureacracy and administration. The future belongs to India and China, not the west. India as a continuous civilization has survives for over 5000 years, west is relatively in that sense too young to advise the east.
EXCELLENT !!!
Thanks a lot Umesh :)
Yes, no modern science explain rationally what belief is, be it west or east.
Coming to good practices of western culture,
1) Time management.
2) work while study to support self and family if needed ( in India an unemployeed grad of 25+ still depends on parents earnings and hesitate to take up job below his set standards). Kids over there earn for education and hobbies investments.
3) Sharing of work with in family- we can save lot of money and invest portion for good cause too. Indians are truly dependent on servant maid and such many aids. Gardening, cooking, children care, washing cloth such household tasks are shared among couple and children. It is difficult manage maids/nanis over there.
etc….
Guru, this one got mixed up in my last comment. Pasting it again here for you.
Guru… I feel that our own learned modern day scholars are not doing enough to tell the world all hidden secrets of Vedas. Either that or no one has done much work into it till as you rightly said, they relate things from vedic quotes only when some discovery happens from other parts of the world. It is all said in Vedas, but since only Indians have the first right over this abundant knowledge we should declare everything to the world.
I also observe that the vedas were written in such a way that even to this day we can decipher it in our own frame of modern scientific knowledge.
Please let me know where I can find all the vedic book along with meanings for every line on the side?
At first; Heading of last para should have been the heading of this article.Each society has committed mistakes in its process of evolution.We should not get indulge in determining who committed more foolishness.
99% views are nothing but dogmatic interpretations of others ehtos,there history,cultural values(east west context here).Most of the time history becomes dogma, false pride and superiority/inferiority complex which tends to ‘aggressive nationalism’.Knowledge of history is not that imp to create bright future; just fine free minds are enough.
Akshay,
I do not agree that History is not important. History is very important because it is from there were we learn our lessons to not repeat our past mistakes. Without knowing the past nothing much can be derived about the future. Without going into the past history you cannot solve any of the world’s social issues, because the moment you say forget the past, there wont be any issue at all, but in practical reality there are issues. So the need of the hour is to understand history and find amicable solutions to address all concerns.
Coming back to knowledge, knowledge comes from the past, without understanding who discovered it and how/why there will be reinventing of the wheels. Every society has a reason to be proud of itself and there is nothing wrong in it. But care should be taken to ensure that the society also addresses its weaknesses, and builds upon its strength. The context of this article was to get away with the inferiority complex which many so called scientific minded youth have about our culture, where Shakespeare overshadows Kalidasa, and Pythagoras theorem overshadows Sulva Sutras and we would be doing a great injustice to our knowledgeable ancestors if we term their history and culture as unscientific and irrelevant. That was the entire context of this article.
What is happening today in the name of refuting aggressive nationalism is that we are destroying the best practices of smaller cultures. Parents speaking english at home with their kids there by destroying their own rich languages – saying let us not be overly protective about our language – well if you dont speak it at home then how on earth is it your language? Local art forms being replaced by multiplexes – let us be global, who wants to watch a boring dance? Kusti and Garadi Mane (ancient gyms) being replaced by gymnastics and WWF – go global again. Ayurvedic medicines not finding proper herbs because of GM crops – let us create artificial shortage of crops and replace natural seeds with GM seeds. Thanks to all this, we have started paying to Multinationals to drink our own free water who simply bottle it for us – any protests against this will be labeled as fanatic nationalism.
What do we mean by global? All humans follow a single culture? And where does it come from? Then what about other cultures? Should they vanish?
What is required is that global interactions of local minds where each tries to get the best from the other and improvise his own local society. As you rightly said each society has committed mistakes and that needs to be corrected and improvised. But what we are seeing today is simple copy cats of advanced cultures, but not really doing any advanced achievements or following best practices of the developed nations. They have malls in US, well let us also have it. Why not also follow that, they follow a proper lane system in west while driving, let us also follow it? :)
We have wealthiest in the west like warren buffet, bill gates etc donating most of their wealth in charity. How many of our Ambanis and software giants have done this? We have a lot of our software engineers roaming around in the malls and multiplexes acting as though they have written compilers and operating systems, while what a lot of them really do is to google to copy paste code from other websites, and they all get fired the moment there is an economic crisis in US. Isn’t this a hard harsh reality? Why not follow the US culture of developing quality products like the ones that come from Microsoft, Google, Oracle, Adobe etc?
Akshay, your point is from a very short sight.
Please look beyond all these …beyond the universe to understand.
Guru… I feel that our own learned modern day scholars are not doing enough to tell the world all hidden secrets of Vedas. Either that or no one has done much work into it till as you rightly said, they relate things from vedic quotes only when some discovery happens from other parts of the world. It is all said in Vedas, but since only Indians have the first right over this abundant knowledge we should declare everything to the world.
I also observe that the vedas were written in such a way that even to this day we can decipher it in our own frame of modern scientific knowledge.
Please let me know where I can find all the vedic book along with meanings for every line on the side?
Suchin, the issue is that those who are experts in sanskrit today and have understood the vedas are usually unaware of the modern scientific equivalent concepts and use spiritual language to describe the facts, while those who are experts in modern science are almost completely unaware of the scientific knowledge in the vedas. Only a few like Shrodinger, Heisenberg, Oppenheimer, Bonn etc who were the champs of modern science were also good at understanding the knowledge in these ancient texts.
sacredchants.com is one place where most of the texts are made online, but other than that we only can get audio recordings of these texts recorded from the recitals of priests. One such place where you can find these downloads are http://www.2indya.com/2009/01/22/download-links-for-rigveda-samadeva-yajurveda-atharvaveda/
As usual you are at best Guru.
:)