Rajnesh says:

As per the Hindu Calendar, the number of years in each Yuga are as follows:

Kruta Yuga 17,28,000 Years
Treta Yuga 12,96,000 Years
Dwapara Yuga 8,64,000 Years
Kali Yuga 4,32,000 Years
Total (Chatur Yugas) 43,20,000 Years

A K Kaul says:

—– Original Message —–
From: jyotirved
To: subash razdan (WAVES-vedic-yahoo forum)
Cc: pvr@mediaone.net ; vedic_research_institute@yahoogroups.com ; hinducalendar@yahoogroups.com ; indian_astrology_group_daily_digest@yahoogroups.com; hinducivilization@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 2:15 PM
Subject: Re: Dating of the Ramayana Period

Dear Subashji,
Thanks for forwarding me the full text of Shri Purshkar Bhatnagar’s views about his own publication. In fact, a similar post/mail has appeared on several forums!

“”Vedic astronomers”" have a symbiotiic relation with “”Vedic astrololgers”" and, as such, are hardly any better than them in exhibiting their ignorance of astronomy! And they are flaunting, like a talisman, softwares like Planetarium etc. to show to the whole world as to how ignorant they actually are about their own cultural matters, whether about the Ramayana or the Mahabharata.
Shri Pushkar Bhatnagar has said in his book, “”Maharishi Valmiki has recorded in Bal Kaand sarga 19 and shloka eight and nine (1/18/8,9) that Shri Ram was born on ninth tithi of Chaitra month when the position of different planets vis-a-vis zodiac constellations and nakshatras (visible stars) were: i) Sun in Aries; ii) Saturn in Libra; iii) Jupiter in Cancer; iv) Venus in Pisces; v) Mars in Capricorn; vi) Lunar month of Chaitra; vii) Ninth day after no moon; viii) Lagna as Cancer (cancer was rising in the east); ix) Moon on the Punarvasu (Gemini constellation & Pllux star); x) Day time (around noon).
This data was fed into the software. The results indicated that this was exactly the location of planets/stars in the noon of January 10, 5114 BC. Thus Shri Ram was born on January 10, 5114 BC (7123 years back). As per the Indian calendar it was the ninth day of Shukla Paksha in Chaitra month and the time was around 12 to 1 noontime. This is exactly the time and date when Ram Navmi is celebrated all over India”". In several of his earlier posts, Shri Bhatnagar had talked of using “”Planetarium”" software.
Let us analyze the facts.
There is a program by P. V. R. Narasimha Rao, (owner, vedic-astrology yahoo groups) named JHora. Its latest version, 7.33 calculates planetary longitudes, lagna, nakshatra etc. from about 5500 BCE to about 5500 AD rather quite accurately. It can be downloaded for free from the internet. Anybody can use in it any Ayanamsha including the “”almighty”" Lahiri or Ramana or even zero, which is euphemistically known as Sayana! 7
Swiss Ephemeris, that is based on VSOP 87 and also DE/LE data, is as well quite accurate and calculates plaetary longitudes etc. for a similar period. That also can be downloaded free from the web or purhased for a nominal price for professional purpposes.
Both these softwares tally almost exactly with the Vishnu program in HinduCalendar forum for tithi, nakshatra etc. from 10000 BCE to 12030 AD!

Following are the “”almighty”" Lahiri details copied from the JHora 7.33 software for January 10, 5114 BCE (-5113 AD) for Ayodhya at Noon, LMT:

Natal Chart Shri Ram
Date: January 10, -5113
Time: 12:00:00
Time Zone: 5:30:00 (East of GMT)
Place: 82 E 12′ 00″”, 26 N 48′ 00″”
Ayodhya, India
Altitude: 0.00 meters

Lunar Yr-Mo: Parabhava – Phalguna
Tithi: Sukla Sapthami (Sa) (48.25% left)
Vedic Weekday: Thursday (Ju)
Nakshatra: Rohini (Mo) (62.35% left)
Yoga: Vishkambha (Sa) (11.29% left)
Karana: Vanija (Ve) (96.49% left)
Hora Lord: Moon (5 min sign: Le)
Mahakala Hora: Moon (5 min sign: Cn)
Kaala Lord: Saturn (Mahakala: Moon)

Sunrise: 6:58:32
Sunset: 17:19:31
Janma Ghatis: 12.5612

Ayanamsa: 285-52-47.49
Sidereal Time: 16:35:26

Body Longitude Nakshatra Pada Rasi Navamsa

Lagna 14 Ta 52′ 07.38″” Rohi 2 Ta Ta
Sun – BK 26 Aq 48′ 32.38″” PBha 3 Aq Ge
Moon – PiK 15 Ta 01′ 10.38″” Rohi 2 Ta Ta
Mars – AmK 28 Ar 17′ 42.38″” Krit 1 Ar Sg
Mercury – AK 29 Cp 18′ 42.32″” Dhan 2 Cp Vi
Jupiter (R) – MK 18 Le 51′ 39.03″” PPha 2 Le Vi
Venus (R) – DK 1 Pi 59′ 24.70″” PBha 4 Pi Cn
Saturn – PK 13 Sc 47′ 26.51″” Anu 4 Sc Sc
Rahu – GK 22 Sg 16′ 56.06″” PSha 3 Sg Li
Ketu 22 Ge 16′ 56.06″” Puna 1 Ge Ar
**** **** ***** ***** ***** *****

Following are the so called Sayana details as per the same J Hora 7.33 software
Natal Chart Shri Ram

Date: January 10, -5113
Time: 12:00:00
Time Zone: 5:30:00 (East of GMT)
Place: 82 E 12′ 00″”, 26 N 48′ 00″”
Ayodhya, India
Altitude: 0.00 meters

Lunar Yr-Mo: Parabhava – Pushya
Tithi: Sukla Sapthami (Sa) (48.25% left)
Vedic Weekday: Thursday (Ju)
Nakshatra: Poorvabhadra (Ju) (18.25% left)
Yoga: Vyatipata (Ra) (23.08% left)
Karana: Vanija (Ve) (96.49% left)
Hora Lord: Moon (5 min sign: Le)
Mahakala Hora: Moon (5 min sign: Cn)
Kaala Lord: Saturn (Mahakala: Moon)

Sunrise: 6:58:32
Sunset: 17:19:31
Janma Ghatis: 12.5612

Ayanamsa: 0-00-00.00
Sidereal Time: 16:35:26

Body Longitude Nakshatra Pada Rasi Navamsa

Lagna 0 Pi 44′ 54.87″” PBha 4 Pi Cn
Sun – PK 12 Sg 41′ 21.93″” Mool 4 Sg Cn
Moon – DK 0 Pi 53′ 59.93″” PBha 4 Pi Cn
Mars – PiK 14 Aq 10′ 31.93″” Sata 3 Aq Aq
Mercury – MK 15 Sc 11′ 31.87″” Anu 4 Sc Sc
Jupiter (R) – GK 4 Ge 44′ 28.58″” Mrig 4 Ge Sc
Venus (R) – BK 17 Sg 52′ 14.25″” PSha 2 Sg Vi
Saturn – AK 29 Le 40′ 16.06″” UPha 1 Le Sg
Rahu – AmK 8 Li 09′ 45.60″” Swat 1 Li Sg
Ketu 8 Ar 09′ 45.60″” Aswi 3 Ar Ge

*****8 ***** **** ****** ****

The (Sayana) planetary details as per the Swiss Ephemeris are:
*** CHART ANALYSIS REPORT ***

Shri Ram – Male Chart

DeltaT = +162894s; ET = 3:46:06 am Jan 12 5114 BC; JDE = -146454.342978
ST(0°) = 11:08:42; LST = 16:37:30; Ob = 24°10’19”; Eq.Time = -2m33s
ACD(0h) = Oct 4 5114 BC; ACD(12h) = Apr 5 5114 BC

CHART ANGLES
Ascendant 01°Pi26’08” Midheaven 11°Sg02’58”
CHART POINTS
Mon 02°Pi29’03”
Sun 12°Sg48’44”
Mer 15°Sc19’34”
Ven 17°Sg48’30” R
Mar 14°Aq15’05”
Jup 04°Ge44’21” R
Sat 29°Le40’55”
Nod 09°Li03’37” R
SNo 09°Ar03’37” R
*** END REPORT ***

You can see it for your self that there is not much difference between the Swiss Ephemeris data and that of the latest J.Hora.
As claimed by Shri Pushkar Bhatnagar, The Valmiki Ramayana, Balakanda 18/8-9 actually says, “”In the meantime six seasons (from the last Vasanta) rolled away after the sacrifice was over. Then on the ninth lunar day of the bright fortnight of Chaitra, the twelfth month after the conclusion of the sacrifices, when the asterism Punarvasu, presided over by Aditi, was in the ascendant and as many as five planets viz. the Sun, Mars, Saturn amd Venus happened to be exalted (appeared in zodiacal signs of Mesha or Aries, Makara or Capricornus, Tula or Libra, Karka or Cancer and Mina or Pisces respectively), and Jupiter in conjunction with the moon appeared in the zodiacal sign of Karka, mother Kaushalya, the eldest wife of Dhasharatha, gave birth to a highly blessed son named Shri Ram, who was no other than the Lord of the universe..”" (Gita Press translation)
The salient features of the “”Divine”" chart by Shri Pushkar Bhatnagar, however, are:
1. Janma month is neither Madhu nor Chaitra but the month of Sahasya and Margashirsha/Pausha!
2. Janma ritu is not vasanta but Hemanta Ritu!
3. Janma tithi is Shukla Saptami instead of Shukla Navmi!
4. Janma Nakshatra is either Purvabhadra (Sayana) or Rohini (Lahiri) instead of Punarvasu!
5. Moon is neither in sayana nor in nirayana Karkata but in either Mina or Vrisha!
6. Sun is neither in nirayana nor in sayana Mesha but either in Dhanush or in Kumbha!
7. Lagna is neither sayana nor nirayana Karkata but either Mina or Vrisha!
8. Brihaspati is neither in Sayana nor in nirayana Karkata but in Mithuna or Simha!
9. Mangal is neither in Sayana nor in nirayana Makara but in Kumbha or Mesha
10. Shani is neither in Sayana nor in nirayana Tula but in Simha or Vrischika
11. Shukra is the only planet that can be said to be in Mina, that also provided that we presuppose hat “”almighty”" Lahiri had incarnated even prior to “”Bhatnagar Ram”" since it is only as per Lahiri Ayanamsha that Shukra is in Mina!
12 Thus leave alone five planets being either exalted or in their own signs, not even a single planet is exalted or in its own sign!
And the rest is history, as the saying goes, since if the birth parituclars itself are inaccurate to such an extent, it is futile to go into other details!
So long live “”Bhatnagar Ram”"!
And I am sure “”Vedic astrologers”" will continue to delieneate the chart of “”Bhatnagar Ram”" for ages together with correct predictions, since they can make correct predictions only from incorrect data!
And the billion dollar question that no “”Vedic astronomer”" or “”Vedic astrolger”" can answer is as to how could Mesha etc. Rashis be included in the Valmiki Ramayana if they were conspicuous by their absence in a much later work viz. the Mahabharata, (“”Paroskhya Professor’s”" Brahma Rashi notwithstanding!) as there were no rashis till the advent of Maya the mlechha, again, “”parokshya professor’s”" visualization of spurioius mantra as original in the Vedanga Jyotisha notwithstanding!
But then people like you and me are helpless in the face of an avalanche of “”proofs”" by “”prominent scholars”", thanks to their “”philosphers’ stones”" like “”Planetarium”" software etc.!

It also appears that these scholars like Dr. Vartak or “”Parokshya Professor”" or Pushkar Bhatnagar or Prafulla Mendaki etc. etc., have not read the original Valmiki Ramayana at all, since they would have at least given some explanation as to how Shri Ram could have Incarnated in fifth or even seventh millennium BCE, if He is supposed to have ruled for eleven thousand years for this is what the Valmiki Ramayana says, “”Having served His kingdom for eleven thousand years, Shri Ram will ascend to Brahmaloka”" (Balakanda 1/97–Gita Press translation) and “”(Now that You have ruled for eleven thousand years, as desired by You Yourself, You will have now to asend to Brahmaloka”" (Uttarakanda 104/12–Gita Press translation).
What is most pathetic is the statement by Shri Pushkar Bhatnagar “”The following document is the ‘MOST’ authentic scientific work that does not need further scientific verification.”" Obviously, some of the scholars consider themselves more exalted than the Vedic Seers or even Maharshi Valmiki and would not like their findings to be subjected to any peer review!
The fact of the matter is that these astrological combinations in the Varlmiki Ramayana and Adhyatma Ramayana etc. are astronomically impossible and are interpolations of a much later date by some good for nothing jyotishi! This will be clear from:
1. It is practically impossible for anybody to have been or be born in Punarvasu nakshatra with the Moon in Karkata and Navmi tithi, with the sun in Mesha!
2. Similarly, as per the Valmiki Ramayana Balakanda 18/15-16, “”Bharata of cheerful mind was born when the constellation Pushya was in the ascendant and the Sun had entered the zodiacal sign of Pisces, while the twin sons of Sumitra were born when the constellation Ashlesha was in the Ascendant and the sun had reached the meredian, touching the zodiacal sign of Karkata, i.e. Cancer”". (Gita Press translation)
Anybody knowing even a bit of astronomy, can immediately see through the blunders committed by those good for nothing jyotishis who made such interploations to prove their jyotisha prowess, that if the sun is in Mesha as in the case of Bhagwan Rama and in Mina in the case of Bharata, the latter is either younger by eleven months or elder by one month to the former, since Mesha follows Mina and not the other way round!
3. Similarly, if Bharata’s sun is in Mina, and that of Lakshmana and Shatrugna in Karkata, they are either younger than Bharata by four months or elder to him by eight months! However, as per the same Valmiki Ramayana, all the four brothers are supposed to have been born within a gap of a day or two and not several months.

No “”Vedic astrologer”" has commented on such anachrnosims in the Ramayana, since they would not then be able to make a fool of a common man with such words as, “”Rama was exiled when He had Sade-Sati”" or “”even Bhagwan Ram was separated from His wife since He was a Manglik as He had Mars in the seventh”" and so on!

But then this is Kaliyuga and that is why Goswami Tulsidas had said, in the Ramacharitamanasa, in Balakanda, 14th Doha:”"Banchak Bhagat Kahai Ram ke, kinkar kanchan koh kama ke”".
Aakhir paapi pet ka saval jo hai!
With regards,
Avtar

—– Original Message —–
From: subash razdan
To: World Association ; Avtar K. Kaul ; namaste bombay ; nfia ; senior citizens program
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 2:47 AM
Subject: Fw: Dating of the Ramayana Period

—– Forwarded Message —-
From: Krishan Bhatnagar
To: Undisclosed-Recipient@yahoo.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2009 10:55:09 AM
Subject: Dating of the Ramayana Period

Dating the Era of Lord Ram :
Discover the Actual Dates of the Lifetime of Lord Ram

Pushkar Bhatnagar
Rupa and Co, 2004, pbk, x, 161 p, 59 Slides, ISBN : 81-291-0498-9, $22.00

Excerpts…(The following document is the ‘MOST’ authentic scientific work that does not need further scientific verification.)

The story of Shri Ram’s life was first narrated by Maharishi Valmiki in the Ramayana, which was written after Shri Ram was crowned as the king of Ayodhya. Maharishi Valmiki was a great astronomer as he has made sequential astronomical references on important dates related to the life of Shri Ram indicating the location of planets vis-a-vis zodiac constellations and the other stars (nakshatras) . Needless to add that similar position of planets and nakshatras is not repeated in thousands of years. By entering the precise details of the planetary configuration of the important events in the life of Shri Ram as given in the Valmiki Ramayan in the software named “”Planetarium”" corresponding exact dates of these events according to the English calendar can be known.

Mr Pushkar Bhatnagar of the Indian Revenue Service had acquired this software from the US.. It is used to predict the solar/lunar eclipses and distance and location of other planets from earth. He entered the relevant details about the planetary positions narrated by Maharishi Valmiki and obtained very interesting and convincing results, which almost determine the important dates starting from the birth of Shri Ram to the date of his coming back to Ayodhya after 14 years of exile.

Maharishi Valmiki has recorded in Bal Kaand sarga 19 and shloka eight and nine (1/18/8,9) that Shri Ram was born on ninth tithi of Chaitra month when the position of different planets vis-a-vis zodiac constellations and nakshatras (visible stars) were: i) Sun in Aries; ii) Saturn in Libra; iii) Jupiter in Cancer; iv) Venus in Pisces; v) Mars in Capricorn; vi) Lunar month of Chaitra; vii) Ninth day after no moon; viii) Lagna as Cancer (cancer was rising in the east); ix) Moon on the Punarvasu (Gemini constellation & Pllux star); x) Day time (around noon).

This data was fed into the software. The results indicated that this was exactly the location of planets/stars in the noon of January 10, 5114 BC. Thus Shri Ram was born on January 10, 5114 BC (7123 years back). As per the Indian calendar it was the ninth day of Shukla Paksha in Chaitra month and the time was around 12 to 1 noontime. This is exactly the time and date when Ram Navmi is celebrated all over India.

Shri Ram was born in Ayodhya. This fact can be ascertained from several books written by Indian and foreign authors before and after the birth of Christ – Valmiki Ramayan, Tulsi Ramayan, Kalidasa’s Raghuvansam, Baudh and Jain literature, etc. These books have narrated in great detail the location, rich architecture and beauty of Ayodhya which had many palaces and temples built all over the kingdom. Ayodhya was located on the banks of the Saryu river with Ganga and Panchal Pradesh on one side and Mithila on the other side. Normally 7,000 years is a very long period during which earthquakes, storms, floods and foreign invasions change the course of rivers, destroy the towns/buildings and alter the territories. Therefore, the task of unearthing the facts is monumental. The present Ayodhya has shrunk in size and the rivers have changed their course about 40 km north/south.

Shri Ram went out of Ayodhya in his childhood (13th year as per Valmiki Ramayan) with Rishi Vishwamitra who lived in Tapovan (Sidhhashram) . From there he went to Mithila, King Janaka’s kingdom. Here he married Sita after breaking Shiv Dhanusha. Researchers have gone along the route adopted by Shri Ram as narrated in the Valmiki Ramayan and found 23 places which have memorials that commemorate the events related to the life of Shri Ram. These
include Shringi Ashram, Ramghat, Tadka Van, Sidhhashram, Gautamashram, Janakpur (now in Nepal), Sita Kund, etc. Memorials are built for great men and not for fictitious characters.

Date of exile of Shri Ram: It is mentioned in Valmiki Ramayan’s Ayodhya Kand (2/4/18) that Dashratha wanted to make Shri Ram the king because Sun, Mars and Rahu had surrounded his nakshatra and normally under such planetary configuration the king dies or becomes a victim of conspiracies. Dashratha’s zodiac sign was Pisces and his nakshatra was Rewati. This planetary configuration was prevailing on the January 5, 5089 BC, and it was on this day that Shri Ram left Ayodhya for 14 years of exile. Thus, he was 25 years old at that time (5114-5089). There are several shlokas in Valmiki Ramayan which indicate that Shri Ram was 25-years-old when he left Ayodhya for exile.

Valmiki Ramayan refers to the solar eclipse at the time of war with Khardushan in later half of 13th year of Shri Ram’s exile. It is also mentioned it was amavasya day and Mars was in the middle … When this data was entered, the software indicated that there was a solar eclipse on October 7, 5077 BC, (amavasya day) which could be seen from Panchvati. The planetary configuration was also the same – Mars was in the middle, on one side were Venus and Mercury and on the other side were Sun and Saturn. On the basis of planetary configurations described in various other chapters, the date on which Ravana was killed works out to be December 4, 5076 BC, and Shri Ram completed 14 years of exile on January 2, 5075 BC, and that day was also Navami of Shukla Paksha in Chaitra month. Thus Shri Ram had come back to Ayodhya at the age of 39 (5114-5075).

A colleague, Dr Ram Avtar, researched on places visited by Shri Ram during his exile, and sequentially moved to the places stated as visited by Shri Ram in the Valmiki Ramayan, starting from Ayodhya he went right upto Rameshwaram. He found 195 places which still have the memorials connected to the events narrated in the Ramayana relating to the life of Shri Ram and Sita. These include Tamsa Tal (Mandah), Shringverpur (Singraur), Bhardwaj Ashram (situated near Allahabad), Atri Ashram, Markandaya Ashram (Markundi), Chitrakoot, Pamakuti (on banks of Godavari), Panchvati, Sita Sarovar, Ram Kund in Triambakeshwar near Nasik, Shabari Ashram, Kishkindha (village Annagorai), Dhanushkoti and Rameshwar temple.

In Valmiki Ramayan it is mentioned that Shri Ram’s army constructed a bridge over the sea between Rameshwaram and Lanka. After crossing this bridge, Shri Ram’s army had defeated Ravana. Recently, NASA put pictures on the Internet of a man-made bridge, the ruins of which are lying submerged in Palk Strait between Rameshwaram and Sri Lanka. Recently the Sri Lankan Government had expressed the desire to develop Sita Vatika as a tourist spot. Sri Lankans believe this was Ashok Vatika where Ravana had kept Sita as a prisoner (in 5076 BC).

Indian history has recorded that Shri Ram belonged to the Suryavansh and he was the 64th ruler of this dynasty. The names and other relevant particulars of previous 63 kings are listed in Ayodhya Ka Itihas written about 80 years ago by Rai Bahadur Sita Ram. Professor Subhash Kak of Lousiana University, in his book, The Astronomical Code of the Rig Veda, has also listed 63 ancestors of Shri Ram who ruled over Ayodhya. Sri Ram’s ancestors have been traced out as: Shri Ram, King Dashratha, King Aja, King Raghu, King Dilip and so on.. From Kashmir to Kanyakumari and from Bengal to Gujarat, everywhere people believe in the reality of Shri Ram’s existence, particularly in the tribal areas of Himachal, Rajasthan, Madhya Pradesh and the North-East. Most of the festivals celebrated in these areas revolve around the events in the life of Shri Ram and Shri Krishna.

The events and places related to the life of Shri Ram and Sita are true cultural and social heritage of every Indian irrespective of caste and creed. Therefore, it is common heritage. After all, Shri Ram belonged to the period when Prophet Mohammed or Jesus Christ were not born and Muslim or Christian faiths were unknown to the world. The words Hindu (resident of Hindustan) and Indian (resident of India) were synonymous.. India was also known as Bharat (land of knowledge) and Aryavarta (where Aryans live) and Hindustan (land of “”Hindus”" – derived from word Indus).

During Ram Rajya, the evils of caste system based on birth were non-existent. In fact, Maharishi Valmiki is stated to be of shudra class (scheduled caste), still Sita lived with him as his adopted daughter after she was banished from Ayodhya. Luv and Kush grew in his ashram as his disciples. We need to be proud of the fact that Valmiki was perhaps the first great astronomer and that his study of planetary configurations has stood the test of times. Even the latest computer softwares have corroborated his astronomical calculations, which proves that he did not commit any error. Shabari is stated to be belonging to the Bheel tribe. Shri Ram’s army, which succeeded in defeating Ravana, was formed by various tribals from Central and South India…. The facts, events and all other details relating to the life of Shri Ram are the common heritage of all the Indians including scheduled castes, scheduled tribes, Muslims, Christians, etc.

Prophet Mohammad was born 1,400 years ago. Jesus Christ was born 2,000 years back. Gautam Buddha was born 2,600 years back, whereas Ram was born 7,000 years back. Hence, discovering the details relating to Shri Ram’s life would be lot more difficult as destruction caused by floods, earthquakes and invasions etc., would be far greater. But, should that stop our quest for learning more about our cultural heritage?

As people of Indian origin, let us all take pride in the fact that the Indian civilization is the most ancient civilisation today. It is certainly more than 10,000 years old. Therefore, let us reject the story of Aryan invasion in India in 1,500 BC as motivated implantation. In fact Max Mueller, who was the creator of this theory had himself rejected it. Let us admit that during the British Rule, we were educated in the schools based on Macaulay school of thinking which believed that everything Indian was inferior and that entire “”Indian literature was not worth even one book rack in England”". If there were similarities in certain features of Indian people and people from Central Europe, then automatic inference drawn was that the Aryans coming from Europe invaded India and settled here. No one dared of thinking in any other way.

Therefore, there is urgency for the historians and all other intellectuals to stop reducing Indian history to myth. There is need to gather, dig out, search, unearth and analyze all the evidences, which would throw more light on ancient Indian civilization and culture.

lokesh says:

i want kow about my life

pinastro says:

Good….actually there are many many versions of Ramayana …none seem to be true as the very first version by valmiki was a hugely tainted version of the real ramayana…

Read on the new version released by Hollywood ….which looks much closer to reality:

http://pinastro.wordpress.com/2008/04/16/the-great-ramayana-script-continues-to-inspirethis-time-hollywood/

According to this
Hollywood being inspired by one of the most compelling stories of all times (which marks the change of man from Hunters to Warriors , Nomads to Farmers , Clans to Empires ) as it has inspired every generation since then

Pratik says:

I don’t wanna know DOB of Lord ShreeRam based on modern astronomical Calculations.
Can anyone tell the date of birth of Lord ShreeRam as per CALCULATIONS BASED ON VEDIC ASTROLOGY?
It would be really appreciable if anyone could count DOB of Lord ShreeRam as per ANCIANT HINDU VAIDIC ASTROLOGY.

ANCIANT HINDU VEDIC SCIENCE IS SO MUCH MORE ADVANCED THAT SO CALLED MODERN SCIENCE OF TODAY IS EVEN UNABLE TO UNDERSTAD IT.

ANCIANT HINDU VEDIC SCIENCE IS THE ULTIMATE SCIENCE.

JAI SHREE RAM

Gurudev says:

Pratik, that’s interesting

Gurudev says:

Yes sainath, may god give then some wisdom
http://hitxp.wordpress.com/2008/01/03/freedom-of-speech-vs-freedom-of-thought/

ghanesh says:

Dear All,
Its a nice discussion on finding Sri Rama’s Birth date based on astronomical factors.
Here in my view is based on the Yuga age span and few coreleated scientific findings.

Prehistoric Event of Ramayana – Atleast 18 Milion Years.
http://www.orkut.com/CommMsgs.aspx?cmm=267889&tid=2557250281424084551&na=2&nst=130
Ramayana is a Pre Historic event which took place when Dinosours were present on earth. In a deadly confortation King Vibhishana fought agaist Dinasours to protect people on earth. This is after Ravana-Rama war and when ViBhishana was king. Further according to science Man evolved from Monkeys, which is a event atleast 10~20 millions years ago according to scientific research. Ramayana dating based on Kaliyuga(5109)+Dwapara yuga(864000) + Tretayuga (1296000- But Ramavathara happened sometime in middle of Treta yuga) So by simple calculation Rama’s Birth in this 7th Manvantara should be 16~18 Million years.

Your above finding based on Astronomical confluence is TRUE, as it is the best time at which all the planets and stars constellation were together, But this is cyclic in nature. What i mean by this is this will again happen and Rama’s consciousness would be born in the heart of people again and again. but the Actual events of Ramayana is very prehistoric dating back to evolution of Monkeys and death of Dinosours.

Cyclinc Nature of time inside time.
I understtod that the division of age as Satya, Treta, Dwapara and Kali is not only applicable to massive time scale. but also applicable to a SECOND or even the Nano second. thus at any given range of time can be divided into this four divisions. So in each yuga say Satya yuga has internal Satya yuga, treta Yuga, Dwapara Yuga, Kaliyuga.

In this Kaliyuga we are in Prathama Paadam right now, which is the first span of Kaliyuga. Kaliyuga is literally Machine age and as Kaliyuga advances Machines evolve and appear like humans. Kalki literally means Machine Man. As we advance in Kaliyuga there will be machinism and humanism. Machinism will try to dominate Humanism and this goes on. It would be more unimaginable things which are going to some in deeper parts of Kaliyuga. We in the first phase of Kaliyuga already feel the wrath of the time. As Kaliyuga progresses, It would be a serious machine world.
Please refer Bhavishya purana, Srimad Bhagavatham and other puranas to get a deeper acumen on this.
THe Paradox is WE THE HUMANS are the creators of the Machines, Machines would evolve with our mind power and as Kali progresses they would get ruling hand and start evolving themselves.

The time spa am talking about is 100000 years. lot more time to go. you can choose to stay and partcipate in the harsh world or simply raise your consciousness to God Consciousness and get back to your source – THYSELF.

Ramana says:

FYI: I felt it is interesting article

http://www.astrobio.net/news/article939.html

sainath says:

my pleasure gurudev

I=Indian says:

http://sify.com/news/fullstory.php?id=14573009

Gurudev says:

Eshwari
Yes I have seen the photograph too, but since I am not aware of any other actual details about it, I really cant comment much on that.
As for the punarjanma or reincarnation, Krishna says clearly in Bhagavadgita that “”Just like how a man discards worn out clothes and puts on new clothes, the soul discards worn out bodies and wears new ones”"!
http://www.himalayanacademy.com/resources/pamphlets/KarmaReincarnation.html

vijay says:

Abhilash,

I completely understood what u said, there is nothing wrong in what u say, infact being science students we need to take your path. But the filtering process is very dangerous, i.e., who is going to do the filtering, is the filtering going to be done logically/scientifically, or is it going to be biased, when should this filtering be done, how much should be filtered. Isnt filtering a very delicate and dangerous process. For example, I agree with you when you say that the author may be poetic and might have added some extra pieces like the ten heads of ravana, symbolizing his bad characters, etc. But how can we determine if things like pushpaka vimana, ravana living for thousands of years are actually not true but just poetic/fantasy in nature. There are huge grey areas, which are easily questionable by non-hindus, in fact by many hindus. There is absolutely no way one can convince such people by any smart argument. Hence I recommended that those who believe in these epics, atleast such people should take them as it is, rather than taking the path of dangerous filtering or interpretations that infact change the original meaning/story. Anyway you hit the most interesting point which we never debated here, fantastic man.

I think this might be my last post for some weeks/months to come. I need to concentrate on my work. I just popped in to reply to your interesting comment. Keep up the good work mate.

As I have been saying all along, we have just begun scraching this Gold mine thanks to Gurudev’s forum, maybe we can take home something positive from all this debate and can hopefully induce/educate others towards the true history of India. Vande Mataram.

Cheers,
Vijay.

Abhilash Menon says:

Hi Vijay,

I admire you for your persistence to seek knowledge and your loyalty to your beliefs. As you said, nothing is black and white. Thanks God!!! If it were so, how boring life would have been…

I just wish to say that I can’t really agree with your statement,
So, we either believe in all this or dont believe. We cant just believe in Lord Rama’s existence and forget about pushpaka vimana, or that ravana met Parashurama long back before Rama was even born.

My question is Why cant we?. You are restricting yourself and others to just 2 options. Take all or leave all. Why shouldn’t we try to do something in between? I feel we should filter out the points that could be mere fantasy (put in using poetic license) and keep ones with historical value only and do our study on those.

Now the question is what is the criteria to do the filter? For this I think we have no choice but to rely on the current scientific knowledge. We know that we have not reached the pinnacle of scientific knowledge (probably we may never do). But we cannot use the future science to do our filter due to the simple fact that we don’t know anything about it. We can’t use the past science either as it is obsolete. So we use the current science, however incomplete it may be (or if possible, we can improve science with our new discoveries / inventions – valid ones, of course). When science improves in the future, we may change our viewpoints also. Then may be Pushpak Viman would not be a laughable matter anymore.

Why should we do any filtering? Because, since most of our texts are poetic in nature, the poet might have used exaggerations to suit the entertainment requirements of the contemporary readers. Then there is this possibility – which has become somewhat like my trademark – Redactions!!! Due to various reasons people during different epochs may have found it necessary to give different perspectives to the epic. However we can’t completely discard the epics as fantasy because the poet mentions that these are Ithihas and these epics have been part of our culture for thousands of generations. So we are obliged to find out the truth.

PS: I don’t agree totally with Gurudev on his viewpoints on the theory of evolution. I shall however post my comments on the relevant blog when I have a little more spare time.

vijay says:

Hello Mr. Pushkar,

Yes, I would like to agree to disagree over the matter of system of yugas. Because all that is written in the texts and all that we try to interpret is very grey indeed, nothing is black and white. Scientifically if one argues, there cant even be a story such as Ramayana or Mahabharatha. Dont you think so? The scientific community laughs at the concept of Pushpaka Vimana (though they are realizing that such things are quite advanced in science), animals talking, Ravana meeting Lord Shiva at Kailasha, Ravana lifting Kailasha Parvata, Ravana living thru thousands of years (fighting with karthyaveerarjuna, meeting parashurama), Krishna having Sudarshana chakra, Duryodhana getting body of Diamond with the help of his mother’s eyesight, Pandavas and Karna born with the help of only mantras, Different types of demons, Lord Hanuman growing in size, and many many more such things. So, science as it is of now, cannot explain all this. So, we either believe in all this or dont believe. We cant just believe in Lord Rama’s existence and forget about pushpaka vimana, or that ravana met Parashurama long back before Rama was even born. The evolution theory and the genetic mutant theory is just in its infancy. The great human genome project has ended just a few years ago, and still geneticists are struggling to determine which gene causes what biological process, which gene interacts with which other genes. To the outer world, it may feel as though science (genetics) has made huge advances, but its a known truth inside the community of geneticists that we are are just in the ABCD of this science. Also the evolution theory is being debated and continuously updated as we speak due to the new fossils that are being retrieved and the advances in geological sciences. Once such excellent comment was made by Gurudev in his recent posts where he explained how scientists would debate over the fossils of a cat and get astonished that a small tiger was domesticated by humans long back. That was a very fine example to drive the point of fossil investigations. Hence everything is grey still. Anything is possible. This is where infact I completely endorsed Abhilash’s views that we need to keep our minds open. Hence its very difficult to completely depend on science as it is of today and base our arguments on it. This was the reason for me to just stick with what the texts said. If, say after another hundreds of years, if science can without any doubt prove that the texts were absolutely wrong, then very well, people will automatically reject these texts and stick with science. Anyway, we can definitely agree to disagree and stick to our respective views, until science advances to a level where it can be completely confident of itself and prove all these long held beliefs either completely true or completely false.

BTW, I read all your comments that you mentioned, they were quite interesting, and as I said above, we can politely agree to disagree.

Anyway it was nice debating with you Mr. Pushkar, apart from some wayward comments by both of us. Hope we can finally lay those to rest and I wish you all the best in your life and keep up the good work. Also thanks for patiently explaining many things which we didnt know and were happy to get to know, like the precession of equinoxes, etc.

I am afraid I might have to discontinue my visits here, as I may be very busy for the next few weeks or even months. Lots of work pending and they need lot of concentration. Work is Worship as Lord Himself has said

Also, could you please go thru my post of
http://hitxp.wordpress.com/2007/09/16/birth-date-of-rama/#comment-7203
and if possible reply to it.

Thanks,
Vijay.

Eshwari says:

Hi,

I appreciate all those who have taken this trouble to give us knowledge on “”Ramayana”"…I wud like to ask a question …recently I found a photograph of Hanuman Lord saying that it is the true pic of Hanuman..is this true…pls explain..also if possible pls let me know about where i can get the details of the concept of “”punarjanma”".

Regards
Eshwari

Vijay Kumar Ojha says:

Vijay
You have nearly hit the bulls eye. I do not agree with the Daivya years. It was a mistake which has come on the on set of Kali Yug. Vijay please read “” The Holy Science”" by Swami Sri Yukteshwar Giri.
Regards
Vijay Kumar Ojha

vijay says:

To supplement the above verse Stephen Knapp (Sri Nandanadana Das) further writes:

“” However, when explaining the various measurements of time, the Vishnu Purana (Book One, Chapter Three) and the Srimad-Bhagavatam (3.11.19), along with the Bhagavad-gita (8.17) and the Vayu Purana (Chapter 57) and others, such as the Mahabharata as quoted above, all agree on the measurements of the durations of the yugas, as explained below.

In the explanations of the measurements of time found therein, one cycle of the four yugas together is 12,000 years of the demigods, called divine years. Each of these years is composed of 360 days, and each of their days is equal to one human year. So Krita-yuga is 4000 divine years in length, Treta-yuga is 3000 divine years in length, Dvapara-yuga is 2000 divine years in length, and Kali-yuga is 1000 divine years long, with the addition of the conjoining portions of the Sandhya and Sandhyansa.

In this way, each yuga is preceded by a period called a Sandhya, which is as many hundred years in length as there are thousands of years in that particular yuga. Each yuga is also followed by a period of time known as a Sandhyansa, which is also as many hundreds of years in length as there are thousands of years in the yuga. In between these periods of time is the actual yuga. Therefore, we have:

Krita-yuga = 4000 divine years, Sandhya = 400 divine years, Sandhyansa = 400 divine years. Total = 4800 divine years x 360 days = 1,728,000 human years.

Treta-yuga = 3000 divine years, Sandhya = 300 divine years, Sandhyansa = 300 divine years. Total = 3600 divine years x 360 days = 1,296,000 human years.

Dvapara-yuga = 2000 divine years, Sandhya = 200 divine years, Sandhyansa = 200 divine years. Total = 2400 divine years x 360 days = 864,000 human years.

Kali-yuga = 1000 divine years, Sandhya = 100 divine years, Sandhyansa = 100 divine years. Total = 1200 divine years x 360 days = 432,000 human years.

This equals 4,320,000 human years in one cycle of the four yugas together, and 1000 cycles of these yugas equals 12,000 divine years and 4,320,000,000 human years in a day of Brahma.

It is also explained that Kali-yuga began with the disappearance of Lord Krishna from the planet. This has been calculated to be 3102 B.C.. Since Kali-yuga is described as being 432,000 earth years in length, with 5,000 years and more already passed, then the age of Kali-yuga has approximately 426,000 more years to go. I hope this has clarified what is sometimes a confusing issue.”"

Courtesy:
http://www.dandavats.com/?p=3576

Hence I hope this clarifies that yugas are in lakhs of human years and not the way Sri Yukteshwar Swami has interpreted

Nitin says:

I=Indian, I had done my due diligence before posting my
query. If you search the thread above, you will see a couple
of people talking about “”Holy Science”", but no one taking
them seriously. I wanted to revive this topic. The reason
being that some of the above discussion is this thread is
dependent on what is the length of a Yuga.

Also, I said about not quoting the Vedas, because Swami
Yukteshwar was well versed in the Vedas and he interpreted
them in a particular manner to come up with his conclusion.
Quoting vedic verses in this thread is useless, since neither
you (i guess), nor me is competent enough to understand
vedic sanskrit and it’s complicated meanings.

The other reason why I am interested in the Yuya cycle is
that there is Greek and Mayan texts that refer to something
like a golden year (about 25000 yrs). The ~25000 yr period
would correspond to a complete Yuga cycle,
if 1 Deva year == 1 solar year. If you are interested, pick
up a copy of “”Lost star of myth and time”". It shows how
various ancient cultures actually talked about very similar
things in terms of life, sustenance and human cycle.

Gurudev says:

Now thats perfect Abhilash!
yes thats my real name, many who dont know me personally have said that I call myself Gurudev!

The reason that we havent found ancient technical peak globally is bcos we have not tried to look for it at all!!! we haven gone well below into the seas and land to those dates. The dates go back when the sea level was very low than today!

That was a perfect observation about the needed excavation in the regions of vanaras. Unfortunately if you go there today you can see politicians and powerful mafia busy looting natural resources ores and rocks and smuggling them out.. I keep repeating that in India we havent yet done even 0.1% of the required archaelogical research. Take a simple example of the ancient temple so near in the shores of tamilnadu, it was discovered recently only because there was a TSUNAMI which unearthed it for sometime! Same about dwaraka, saraswati river etc.

Well I never said we have to take at face value what is said in Ramayana, consider it to be suggestions and investigate on those lines, for instance as you said about vanaras, about ramsethu, etc. Again its interesting to note that how greek mythology is taken at face value and search is on for troy , atlantis etc

evolution as it exists today DOESNOT explain creation of a new species from an existing species. All it says is that some random mutations are the cause. Why and How? No answer. That is definitely not science its complete nonsense. A fish keeps trying to come out of water and an amphibian is born in one of its generations, with a different set of chromosomses, and at the same time another sexual counterpart also for that new species is born at the same time??? Thats just one of the questions.. Its not the unanswered questions that I am objecting about. My primary objection is to the unscientific reply called “”Random Mutations”" creating totally new species and trying to fit everything into it.

If at all evolution exists, I think its because of some intelligent mechanism that exists within genes themselves, like the way we program AI today, but then who is the programmer for these genes? Thinking genes! But again for these thiking genes to decide on how to change in successive generations, they also require information from the animal’s experience about surroundings and required changes, and this information has to be used while producing gametes. Still a long way to go.

As of now I dont think evolution will become like Newton’s gravity, instead it looks like it will become like a flat earth theory, but may will hold good for adaptation within species, and definitely not because of random mutations.. I would like to reuse Einstein’s statement in a different context here, ‘God doesnt play dice’, no random mutations please!

Cosmic intelligence, may be! As of now there is nothing about this either. But this will be music to the ears of the proponents of intelligent design who oppose evolution

See my post http://hitxp.wordpress.com/2007/06/03/darwins-theory-is-only-about-adaptation-not-evolution/
http://hitxp.wordpress.com/2007/05/19/an-evolutionary-crisis/

Finally, its not about taking or not taking a single piece of evidence like Ramayana or not, its all about searching whether there is any proof which contradicts what is thought to be true otherwise
Yes, we need to research more professionally to look for the truth, by not pre-deciding what the results should be. There is always a thrill in finding something new

Abhilash Menon says:

Gurudev (Is this your real name?),

We are just arguing with points that we mutually agree on!!!
I think it is because of my poor communication skills. Let me try to put point by point.

• I didn’t mean that Vedic culture was localized. What I said was that if the ancient world had reached the technological levels that we are in today, this most probably was not global else we would have found more evidence for it than the Ooparts.

• Agreed 100% about the symbolism in Ramayana. I believed from the beginning that Vanars were some other hominids or some tribes with monkey as their totemic symbol. But science needs more proof to establish these facts. It can’t just infer. Apart from the epic itself how can we prove it as of now? (I am waiting for the day a Homo Heidelbergensis fossil is unearthed from Humpi in the strata 10,000 BCE – 5,000 BCE)

• I never meant that modern science has reached its pinnacle (far from it, if there is anything like that). But I believe in the strictness needed to accept something as the truth. An event cannot be considered as history based on an epic poem like Ramayana alone (as I explained in my previous posts).

• I don’t agree that evolution theory is all crap. It might not be perfect, especially about the start of life and few other contradictions. Maybe random mutations are not really random, but involve some form of cosmic intelligence or the collective species intelligence. Having flaws doesn’t mean that the whole theory is crap. Like the Newtonian gravitation, it will become a special case of a more general theory. Evolution theory is constantly challenged and studied in the academic circles. So it will get better.

All this is to highlight my viewpoint that Ramayana alone cannot be treated as solid proof to accept some thing as history. However due credit should be given to the events and figures mentioned in it and should be researched more to find real undeniable evidence.

Nitin says:

Interesting discussion folks.

I am wondering if anyone here has read the “”Holy Science”"
by Swami Yukteshwar, a 1940s publication. In this book, the
Swami postulates that each Yuga was hundreds of years
and not lakhs of years. He says that the factor of 360
is actually flawed.

Let me take a step back and say that I haven’t read the
book (I do plan to), but this was the quick summary. Swami
Yukteshwar was a great swami of his time and I am
interested in knowing if someone has read the book and
has comments on the same.

Please don’t refer back to any shlokas of the Upanishads
and Vedas (if you haven’t read the book).

Cheers

Abhilash Menon says:

Gurudeva…

Ditto to most of the things you have mentioned. I have never denied those. But you are suggesting that the ancients reached a stage where they could send information to any part of the world within seconds, put man on the moon and possibly Mars, transportation facilities comparable to today, electronics and electrical advances like today, etc. Well… could be. I am not vehemently denying it (I feel if such advancement existed, it was more of a localized nature than a global one). But my point is that there is no solid evidence to make those fantastic claims apart from mythology and epics (and maybe some ‘ooparts’ and archeological oddities). And as I said science cannot take this as evidence.

I totally agree to the view that the 10 heads of Ravana, etc. were symbolisms. But how can science know that? At some places you want to take the epic literally and at some places as symbolic. Moreover you can give 100 interpretations to symbolism, if you don’t know what the author meant exactly. So my point is that science cannot use this as scientific evidence. Even if we know from our hearts that it was as you mentioned in ancient times, scientific brain cannot accept it. It might be due to the way science defines proofs as purely materialistic. But this is how it is.

I am pretty sure I read somewhere that Valmiki uses the term “kapi” along with “Vanara in Ramayana. He also mentions Bear (Jambavan) and Vulture (Jatayu/Sampadi). Somebody who is well versed in the Sanskrit Ramayana, please confirm.

The concept of evolution may not be 100% accurate but all the evidences (fossils, genetics, etc.) suggest that the probability of it being right is high, agreed that there are many contradictions in it. Maybe it requires more refinement. Any new scientific theory that proves evolution wrong and replaces it as an explanation for creation of life would be the theory of the millennium. (Why did we come to evolution here? Whatever… that’s a topic in itself. Leave it for some other discussion.)

I completely agree with the paragraph in your comment starting with “We dont have to accept it blindly as truth…”.

As for ASI and Ramsethu… I am reminded of the song “It happens only in India…”. Nowhere else would you see the government degrading a heritage site in such a manner just for some selfish economic gain.

So my main point here is that science has its restrictions and needs to keep them for its own well being. Instead of asking science to compromise and accept an epic as proof, we need to research more and more and persuade the ASI to shed its idiocy and do real investigations to provide science with undeniable evidence. I am sure one day something has to turn up as evidence because truth has to prevail.

Gururaj says:

the story of Rama poses the most fundamental paradox of human intelligence: which one comes first — reason or belief?

To evidence the story of Ramayana – you have to believe it is true and search for the evidence.

If you reason based on the available evidence then it becomes a myth.

I have a feeling belief comes first, yet I cant reason it out

However the single biggest evidence of Rama is that he is not only popular in India but through out South Asia — thousands of miles away. How can a fictitious figure be so popular? defies reason. yet in modern times we see fictitious chars like Harry Potter popular through out the world. However the moot question is will Harry Potter be remembered in the future as well: say 50 0r 100 years from now? only time can tell. but yet we can deduce may be with some error that he will not be remembered in the future as only one thing prevails eventually which is truth — the basis of our philosophy “”SATYAMEVA JAYATHE”". I think people often mistake jayathe to mean victory. it actually means to prevail. Truth prevailing is not a mere sentiment of human conciousness but the single most important aspect of integrity of any system that needs to survive.
so by believing in both “”SATYAMEVA JAYATHE”" and “”RAMA”" we have proved Rama existed